Money grabbing artists

[Cop]

On the estate were I work, are are all small industrial units for small business, most of which, like my Dads - only employ between 2 to 7 people.

In the post today, all the units received this letter (below) from PRS, so my Dad chased it up to see what its all about... basically, if music is in ear shot of more than 2 employees, your breaking the law if you don't have the PRS license... ie if you are in a company car, only 2 of them can listen to the radio.

Have they not got bigger fish to fry? We told them to f*ck off what are they gunna do... get Bono on us... ohhh scared!

 

[wiggy]

are you sure this isn't a wind up by someone?

 

[wiggy]

after googling i have discovered this is true! unbelievable!!!

i will give you a copy of the wiggy track cop, then you can play it on an endless loop and not be sued

 

[Cop]

Its stupid, I don't think they can really bother about my Mum and Dad listening to Radio Lancashire or TalkSport in the office, but they are breaking the law if Wayne in the workshop or me in my office can hear it. But what can they really do, they are just going to make PRS look stupid if they take any small business to court.

I am appalled that they have even sent us the letter, if people on the estate were employing 100's of people, I could understand, but this is really sad.

One of the deliverymen said "If I fart and and its in ear shot of them next door can I sue them... as he is the creator".

 

[Joanna]

Have they not got bigger fish to fry? We told them to f*ck off

Good for you and your dad, Cop ....Cop The (Very Very) Brave!

What????!!!!? You have got to be kidding me! This has to be an April Fools post...but made a month late! What the f.....lipping bloody heck..... It's just taking special control of something when it's completely unnecessary. The existence of copyright is all fine and dandy, but this is taking copyright laws too ridiculously far....and especially when it concerns only small groups of people. It's like saying you're some criminal pleb for harmlessly enjoying something that's already legally out there (well, unless it's some pirate broadcast you're listening to or something!). And going by their 'logic', then surely you'd need a licence for doing exactly the same thing in your own home... ....Grrrrr.....rrrrr....rr....

 

[Cop]

My favorite part of the letter is where its "the copyright holder has the right to decide when and where it should be played", try telling that to Radio One, they'll tell you were to go!

My Dad said to the lady on the phone, "fine we wont listen to any of your music then" to which she replied "well thats up to you isn't it" so they obviously don't give a shit...

Can you imagine tomorrows headlines FIVE PEOPLE LISTEN TO RADIO SHOCK HORROR

Its bonkers!

 

[Joanna]

Yeah, if you even think for a minute on the meaning(s) expressed here, it just sort of falls apart into a confused mess of issues that aren't even all relevant to this specific licence. This 'when and where it should be played' also means 'to who'...so with radios and tvs, etc, legally broadcasting copyrighted material to huge numbers of people with legally bought (with obvious exceptions, of course) radios/tvs/etc...well, it just doesn't add up. It just doesn't make any kind of actual sense...Oh my...

 

[Gorf]

I might ring the PRS and get them to come and charge the wanker who's just moved into the flat above the studio - he play his shite so loud I can't use the 'phone.

 

[Cop]

I fully understand there reasoning behind it, nightclubs, pubs, hotels, resturants etc make money from playing music to customers. Playing Greensleeves while on hold has to be payed by someone.

However a few blokes tinkering with cars in a mechanics, a barber or small business cutting glass, having the radio on to help the working day along is shocking...

It might not cost anything for the companies on the estate, the license might be free, but its the principle of it... that they are trying to make out we are criminals and if you don't have the license you are stealing!

 

[Cop]

I might ring the PRS and get them to come and charge the wanker who's just moved into the flat above the studio - he play his shite so loud I can't use the 'phone.

I wouldn't, if its in ear shot your staff and customers, as proprietor of your business, they might hold you responsible...

You can play it in your own home I think

 

[Joanna]

Think you're sadly into other laws (gawd, there are SOOO many) altogether there, Gorf... Got my sympathies over that one.

 

[Booth]

It's a very harsh law. My girlfriends hair salon has to pay the PRS for having the radio on, which is kind of understandable as members of the public are coming in and out. Though the charges for it are ridiculous.

However in a place where so few people are working, it's unbelievable. It's just another example of the country becoming a money grabbing state.

Mark my words, at some point there will be air tax.

 

[Cop]

The glass shop next door to us, he is a one man band, sometimes employs his son when busy. He get glass delivered, he cuts it to size, deliverymen and customers turn up, they pay him money and go again, just becuase the radio (which he pays for though his TV license) is on - why should he pay for a PRS license for people just nipping for a few minutes at a time?

They don't even know the radio is on. But that letter above was sent to him, do they not do their research, they MUST know he is a small business!

It annoys be that they sent the letter... asking if we are breaking the law?

 

[Booth]

That's because technically it is breaking the law. To them it's like driving without a license.

The really annoying thing for me is the abolition of fair use. Not so long ago, students, musicians and filmmakers could use commercial works as long as it fell under 'fair use'. Nowadays it's illegal to use say, a film soundtrack as a temporary track for your movie while editing. Or for a musician to sample 2 seconds of something to use in their track.

I'm amazed that students can't do this legally. If someone used something of mine in their work, I'd take it as a compliment not threaten to sue!

For more on this read this on Alex Cox's site here:

http://www.alexcox.com/ed_12-04.htm

The local filmmakers he mentions are us, his music is no longer associated with the film as we only used it as a temp soundtrack whilst editing. What harm has it done? None, but technically we're criminals and Alex's company could have taken us to court (even though we showed it to him and were quite open about it to him). It's a ridiculous state of affairs!

There's just no common sense any more.

 

[Strawbs]

I could understand if you're playing a cd or iPod but it's harsh if you're just listening to the radio, which a public service and pays PRS already. But even if you're playing a cd or iPod, the cd/track has been paid for and the royalties have already gone to the artist. It's obviously fine to give royalties if a song is used in other artistic mediums such as advertising, movie/TV soundtracks or stage shows that people will definitely hear, but to tap up the general public over and over again on the off chance they or others might hear it during the course of a working day is frankly taking the piss.

They say the licence money is distributed to the artists and composers throughout the industry, but what if your money goes to an artist you didn't hear that day? You've paid them for merely existing, not because you've heard their music. Are they going to check each song played in the vacinity of the workforce of your business to make sure the money your company has paid for the licence goes to the correct specific artists and composers? Of course not.

This law is for established artists who already have money in the bank but want to protect themselves in the age of MySpace and downloads. New/unsigned or just forward thinking acts wouldn't sign up for this as they just want their music to be out there and reaching as many people as possible, while getting royalties from legitimate sales and airplay.

The law is an ass.

 

[wiggy]

i think if i have a barby when the weather gets better i will pay a one off fee to these knob heads and then play my music really loud so that all my neighbors can hear it then if they complain about the noise and call the police i will just say that they are being very inconsiderate as i have paid good money so that they can listen to my music without being prosecuted.

 

[curtinparloe]

I remember it being on the news. The argument from PRS was that a company letting workers listen to the radio is using music as an aid to workflow, and therefore using musician's work for free to increase its own profits. The problem is that it's an inflexible rule, and penalises those who aren't benefiting financially.

 

[Dave Laurie]

The PRS collect money from radio stations as far as I know, then the royalties are passed on to the artist(es). So if you are listening to the radio, whoever you are listening to is getting paid. Surely they can't expect to be paid twice? The whole idea is preposterous.

I mean, that would be like paying your car tax, then being taxed on the fuel you put in it, that could never happen could it..........

 

[Cop]

I went to get a puncture fixed today I could hear (in ear shot) the radio playing Duran Duran - Rio... There was 5 mechanics, me, and another customer waiting...

They should get locked up and I hope they throw away the key... fucking law breakers! (assuming they don't pay PRS)

Dont tell Duran Duran... they are owed money

 

[Joanna]

From the latest issue of The Stage (page 13)....

The methods used by the Performing Rights Society to increase the scope of its revenue by targeting organisations and businesses it believes plays music in their premises without an appropriate licence are about to be tested in the High Court. The society is taking action against Lancashire Police and ten other regional police forces for illegally playing music in their stations, staff parties and gyms because they have not applied for the necessary licence to do so. The PRS decided to sue the police after its requests for payment were refused.

Interested to hear how this one turns out... Staff parties...